Evgeny Morozov (Expert and Sceptic on Internet Social Media) and Ahmed Ghabeia (blogger from Egypt)
Ahmed: "One person that is no dead, managed to mobilize people to go to the streets and express their worries. On the eve of 24th of January, the number of participants was 18 000 - unprecedented number on FB, or anywhere on social media. There was a call for people to go to the streets. We knew it would be something different. Facebook became a popular medium. Media became accessible to people to create CONTENT. The message of 24th of January was spread all around the world. Social media at least for a day were vibrant, Twitter was the commanding control, navigating the streets of Cairo. Those streets have huge security force. The ability to stay in touch with all the other groups of the activists, made a huge difference that day. The government learned very quickly what kind of threat the internet was. The series of events that followed, led to complete shut down of the internet in Egypt. On the 25th the young people were shouting for the demise of the regime. This was dramatic moment for us. People did not have the information on the internet, so they came out to the streets to see what is going on. People were surprised from the complete shutdown of the internet. They also stopped the public transportation. From the 28th, no mobiles, no internet. What do you think we used? Catapults :) 11 February, Mubarak resigned. Military trials became the new threats: 12000 + since 25 January. The army cannot manage society! If you are really poor, you can't talk to the press. You go to jail, and none will know about you. However, we organizes a group for people to get legal help. The army at some point got into confrontation with people. The army even took over the media, "From state media, to army media" was the slogan of alternative media. Activists were taking whatever was forbidden, and republished it. Activists were jailed..." One of our idealistic idea is to incorporate these network into the policy making. Generally, the conclusion is that medial played major role.
Morozov Response:
- You should not start with new decentralized governance as the idea of Egyptians is.
The internet and the medial can be used in two stages: general mobilization, the quality of debates, ideas outside of government. The other point is the immediate contribution to the revolution itself. My criticism applies to the pitfalls of this kinds of usage of media. It is not the first time for the media to play a major role. There is a general point that internet was used. The problem with this is that after the riots and, the governments collects the pictures, tracing mobile calls, internet traffic... It used all that information to arrest most of the people. Another thing is that yes, the internet is giving more space for public debate. New emerging public sphere. The governments not only accept the new public sphere, but throw information of trained bloggers. This is mainly in Russia and China. The Egyptian government did not engage with the internet that much. They did not have consultants in government.
You got to know who owns the sources. There were protest in Belarus which group attracted 300 000 members. The government tracked, and all the social capital went away, because some social advocate company removed it from the internet. Also, the internet can have counter incentive. Iranian women killed on the streets video discouraged many people to get out on the streets. In Egypt I am not aware of trained manipulators of social medial. Face recognition, all things being constant, will of course help more the government that the dissidents. I don't want to to come up with two columns and evaluate when internet is. I think it is dangerous to try to ascribe some characterizing on Technology with a capital T.
We use the Internet as a cultural term to describe technology, space, practices. I don't think it is helpful, because it seems limitless. I propose to try to get away from the debate of whether technology is good or bad, or neutral. There are real life questions we have to address as privacy, business models of silicon values, but not to fall into a cultural debate and discuss so much in vain of WHAT is the Internet.
(CEU talk- Social Media)
Ahmed: "One person that is no dead, managed to mobilize people to go to the streets and express their worries. On the eve of 24th of January, the number of participants was 18 000 - unprecedented number on FB, or anywhere on social media. There was a call for people to go to the streets. We knew it would be something different. Facebook became a popular medium. Media became accessible to people to create CONTENT. The message of 24th of January was spread all around the world. Social media at least for a day were vibrant, Twitter was the commanding control, navigating the streets of Cairo. Those streets have huge security force. The ability to stay in touch with all the other groups of the activists, made a huge difference that day. The government learned very quickly what kind of threat the internet was. The series of events that followed, led to complete shut down of the internet in Egypt. On the 25th the young people were shouting for the demise of the regime. This was dramatic moment for us. People did not have the information on the internet, so they came out to the streets to see what is going on. People were surprised from the complete shutdown of the internet. They also stopped the public transportation. From the 28th, no mobiles, no internet. What do you think we used? Catapults :) 11 February, Mubarak resigned. Military trials became the new threats: 12000 + since 25 January. The army cannot manage society! If you are really poor, you can't talk to the press. You go to jail, and none will know about you. However, we organizes a group for people to get legal help. The army at some point got into confrontation with people. The army even took over the media, "From state media, to army media" was the slogan of alternative media. Activists were taking whatever was forbidden, and republished it. Activists were jailed..." One of our idealistic idea is to incorporate these network into the policy making. Generally, the conclusion is that medial played major role.
Morozov Response:
- You should not start with new decentralized governance as the idea of Egyptians is.
The internet and the medial can be used in two stages: general mobilization, the quality of debates, ideas outside of government. The other point is the immediate contribution to the revolution itself. My criticism applies to the pitfalls of this kinds of usage of media. It is not the first time for the media to play a major role. There is a general point that internet was used. The problem with this is that after the riots and, the governments collects the pictures, tracing mobile calls, internet traffic... It used all that information to arrest most of the people. Another thing is that yes, the internet is giving more space for public debate. New emerging public sphere. The governments not only accept the new public sphere, but throw information of trained bloggers. This is mainly in Russia and China. The Egyptian government did not engage with the internet that much. They did not have consultants in government.
You got to know who owns the sources. There were protest in Belarus which group attracted 300 000 members. The government tracked, and all the social capital went away, because some social advocate company removed it from the internet. Also, the internet can have counter incentive. Iranian women killed on the streets video discouraged many people to get out on the streets. In Egypt I am not aware of trained manipulators of social medial. Face recognition, all things being constant, will of course help more the government that the dissidents. I don't want to to come up with two columns and evaluate when internet is. I think it is dangerous to try to ascribe some characterizing on Technology with a capital T.
We use the Internet as a cultural term to describe technology, space, practices. I don't think it is helpful, because it seems limitless. I propose to try to get away from the debate of whether technology is good or bad, or neutral. There are real life questions we have to address as privacy, business models of silicon values, but not to fall into a cultural debate and discuss so much in vain of WHAT is the Internet.
(CEU talk- Social Media)
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